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Leonis - 12/3/2007 12:10 PM PST

Rescudo a écrit :

Is it still possible to take both Gun and Launcher skills, if you so desire? Or is there an "either-or" limitation now?

I removed the restrictions that would disable skills if you learned one. Discount and Craftman's Talent can both be learned now.

@DarkSideOfMoon
No, it is correctly listed. It is not a percentage, otherwise we would have listed a % in the value box the bonus gives. As noted though, the movement speed buff can be effected by increasing the INT stat. Illusion is a 1st class skill, the power of its effect should not exceed that of a 2nd classes, but works in conjunction with them to make the skills and abilities even more powerful.

@Achilles
The AP buff still works nearly as well as it was before. Yes it is no longer a % buff, however, the amount of AP that can be given through its buff is equivalent, not to mention it can be further increased through boosting the INT stat. Additionally, it can be stacked with skills that give the % boost to attack. So in essence, it has become more powerful.

@XBlaker
No, it is listed correctly. The idea behind its use is for quick bursts of speed that don't rely on the muse support skills, at least for the short time period. We know that many of the skill changes we've made are an effort to help restore balance between classes. We'll continuously review game balance and make adjustments were necessary. These skill changes aren't necessarily permanent, but only what's planned to be adjusted for this balance update.

Niluje a écrit :

Leo, will Stockpile be fixed in the 143 update?

It seemed to work before, however the influence it had was small. The increased rates per level should help make the differences more noticeable.

@Sheppard
*pat* *pat* Don't cry. Yes Sheppard, it helps to encourage leveling and the strategy aspect of planning what kind of class you wish to be. We expect to be adding more skills in the future to provide further differences and diversity in class abilities, but for now we're more focusing on what's currently available.

jughead a écrit :

Leo, i dont get it T_T, how come launcher bourgs get a decrease on stun damage and range where or on the first place range already sucked. i dont get why guns with 29m range gets 17m stun and launcher with 32m range gets 15m stun... can anyone explain T_T

The stun effect skills were reduced in power across the board, not just for a single skill or class. The reason for this is because the effect of stun is already quite powerful. To momentarily and completely render your opponent useless needs to have limitations for the aspects of PvM and PvP. Otherwise you get something like what I've heard the community mention many times before, "First to stun wins."

The update makes this no longer the case, however a stun is still a powerful effect as it gives you the extra moment to hit your opponent, that cannot be countered, or interrupts the spell from being cast, causing their skill cool down to take affect, but not the skill itself.

As far as the range thing goes, it's simply what we came through with as a balance. The effect of a gun is a single target stun, so it was given a slightly larger range, because the area effect of the Launcher's stun. Stunning a single target from afar, or getting a little closer and stunning a group is what it comes down to in a decision of combat.

Leonis - 12/3/2007 4:07 PM PST

rath a écrit :

Looks like there definitely should be skill resets given...

Anyways, does this mean that skills are no longer on the same cooldown timers such as Meteor Strike and Icy Hailstorm or for dealers Weapon Expertise and Illusion? Are the cleric skills like Mana Drop and Voltage Crash on different timers as well now?

It is somewhat difficult to display the change in the skills that share cooldown timers. However, I know it is an important subject for players to know. I'll get a list of skills that share cooldown timers posted as soon as I can so that rather then answering individually which skills share cooldowns, you can check for yourself.

Also, with the boost of Blessed Mind up to 40% and the lowering of all the healing skills, everyone is going to have a ton of HP and it seems as though the heals might be a little inadequate. Will INT affect the Hit Points recovered moreso after this update or about the same?

The healing values are a bit of an illusion, because they have always been influenced by INT on a character. Their base values were never known. They will still increase at the same rate as before.

As far as summons go, it would seem that now you can summon more than one Phantom Sword and other lowly attack summons like that, is it possible to summon more than one or do you have to summon different types of summons?

It is intentional that as you master your summon, the amount needed to control the summon reduces. It is intentional as well that you will be able to pull out any combination of summons, so long as their summon requirement can be supported.

Since Purify now has a success percentage is it being changed to what it was in before Rose Evo? I noted that it says removes the status effects of previously cast magic spells which could mean buffs. This would make it more useful in PvP if it was only available to be used in PvP areas. Not much need for this skill otherwise outside of prison.

When the skill is successful, it will act the same as it does now. It is simply a chance for it to succeed. An offensive "purify" for PvP is being worked on.

Now that Firegon has 5 levels as well as some of the other summons, will the appearance change at all like it does now when you level it up?

We do have future plans for the progressing levels of summons, at this point we're looking more to the balance of skills. Their looks will be addressed in a future update, however the Firegon does increase in size as it matures.

Lastly, Dragon Skin still seems mostly worthless since it only adds 10% MRES while the only class they need this for has a 10% mres down buff at lv1 and goes to 50% mres down when maxed. I don't see much use for it outside of PvP as most of the (magical) monsters in game don't hit that hard to encourage an actual need for magic resistance.

P.S. I know some of these questions may seem like common sense but I just want to make sure.

The fact that most magical monsters don't hit that hard will eventually change, and the added M-Def will come in handy. The next update has plans to make alterations to monsters to help keep scale of balance in game play. So, the areas and level ranges that feel unnecessarily difficult may seem smoother, while the easier places you race through may not feel quite so quick anymore.

Polarbear]In all tables above, with information about new number of levels of each skill, AP, etc etc, there is NO word mentioned about the required skill levels for lower skills when you want to use higher skills. If the number of levels are changed on lower skills, that will very much inflict on the higher skills.....

We're aware of that and working on the additional information to list for reference. The skill level requirements for many skills were not changed. If any skill requirements were changed, it was typically lowering skill level requirements, making skills available at lower levels.

With the added skill levels to a number of skills throughout classes, those skills may have additional progressing skill requirements. It should not cause any player to be unfairly built at this point, but should help assist with the ability to achieve skills at lower levels.

Achilles a écrit :

how many hps will 1 int add to the healing-skills?? the heals look abit low.

Only because you're getting a chance to see their base rates without any INT on your character. INT will affect healing the same way it has before.

well, im sure we will all see our skills reseted, since it wouldnt work just to update to the new skill-tree (more levels of previous skills required ...). what will happen to the skillbooks?? all lost?? will these skills books be buyable at npc are drops like now?

Skills will not be forcibly reset. Skills level requirements were not increased, in fact many were lowered. Aside from the skills that received name changes, skill books will function the same way.

fishnet a écrit :

-Why does Hustle charm not have haste attakc?

Hustle charm was set to be a movement speed buff only. The attack speed buff was moved Battle Charm.

-Will purify work like in Pre-Evp and remove all cast magic spells?

The skill still works the same way, it only have a success chance to work now, except for the final level.

-Why does Integrity/Heavenly Grace take such a big hit in healing and the mp use goes way up?

This is apart of skill balancing. Nearly every skill was looked at to determine whether it scaled properly or not and adjusted where necessary.

-how long does the summons last(bonfire and flames)?

Each summon is unique, but keeping it alive by healing it is an intentional means to stretch out its existence.

-What is the starting amount for the summons gauge? Will it be increased?
By the looks of it we will only be able to cast 2 bonefires or only 1 of the flames?

1. It is the same.
2. The passive skills that increase the summon gauge has been changed.
3. The possibilities of what you can summon will depend on your skill build.

-why does INT not affect buffing skills?
as you have it someone doesnt even need to add to INT and could party the whole time as a buffer and be a tank(adding str and dex).

Quite true, but you wouldn't have the MP to support the constant use of buffs at that point. The reason for the set buffs to be removed were due to an unforeseen design flaw in how lower level players were getting amplified attack power causing leveling to exceed speeds of design to game play. We didn't want buffs to be useless, they still help a great deal, however you will not end up being able to single handedly ravage a map from a single buff. Instead it will help improve your capabilities by scale.

wierd my heavenly grace says 234 mp and heals 7511. hmm forgort i have mp reduction skills. duh

The values you see in the listed skills are prior reduction passives or items. As an example, a 15% MP reduction from a 283MP cost skill, will lower it to 241MP. If you still think that MP cost is high, you may want to look into the MP consumption reducing offhand items.

well my take on it, is that its going back to pre-evo style where you needed food to survive. so if thats true bring on the food wars of before

It certainly is something to expect to see again.

@Hephaestus
Sorry Hephaestus, the skill wasn't changed much in the means of access to a mage. It is a support skill, higher levels of it will fall to the support designed class.

Hephaestus a écrit :

Oh, something I almost forgot.  What is the point of the dodge buff when dodge doesn't even work, and won't be fixed with this update?  It seems rather pointless.

That isn't entirely true. Dodge has worked and works still, the issue is, is that we aren't pleased with the balance it currently holds with accuracy Vs dodge. Even with the changes we're making now, further adjustments can help achieve those goals, without dramatically overpowering classes. The buffs will prove to be just as useful now as they will in the future. Your example of dodge not working is also basing it off the current system, which we all know to be unbalanced. But keep in mind just because you may see a high number for dodge, doesn't mean you're untouchable.

Restating once again: We've made adjustments to help balance dodge, but the core mechanics to it have not been altered. Changing a base mechanic to game play can yield unwanted results and we want to ensure that any changes we make to the accuracy/dodge calculations are kept to our desires of how accuracy/dodge should  function in-game.

Jheymon a écrit :

I'm wondering then, with this update, seeing as partying will be twice as important as it is now, will the current exp rates during a party be affected any after update?

Maybe I need to explain myself, exp is basically split when you have a party of two. I dont even know how its split when you have a party of more than 2, I dont even see party's of more than 2 now. Being that the exp is so crappy while in a party, is there anything you the GM team can do to change this to more satisfy most of those that like to party? Because with this update, we are basicaly forced to party, in itself causing a mass decline in the lvling timetable. I'd like to atleast be able to lvl somewhat faster in a party of 3 or more after the update then its current state.

Thanks,
Jheymon

No, you are not being forced to party. However there are now seen benefits to doing so. Nothing is being done to the experience rates of monsters at this point, but we are currently now working on the balance of monsters for the following update.

When you're in a party, you may also want to consider a couple additional factors aside from experience just splitting. You're killing, likely faster by a multiple of the amount of players in your party. (3 people in party, you kill 3x faster) The added bonus comes from party levels, as each party level gives approximately 1% more exp from kills. A level 50 party effectively gets 150% experience rates, while killing faster from monster to monster. The experience gained over time would increase, rather then the experience gains per monster kill. That's how you should be looking at it, as a whole.

Leonis - 12/3/2007 5:10 PM PST

SnizzTheFizz a écrit :

O.o  this im liking... from what it looks like more aspd more AP for reg hits and easier crits  weee this looks fun.  but hey Leo any chance we can get these changes in the form of a skill tree with the prerequisites too that wud be awesome to have.

We're working on it, but the test server may be up and running before we're able to consolidate all the skill data requirements and would end up being slightly wasted efforts. But we're still working on it for the long term use. It's difficult to get all the data requests that we've had regarding the skill update changes. (Skill Pre-requisites, Cool Down links)

Leonis - 12/3/2007 5:39 PM PST

Hephaestus a écrit :

So basically, a mage who wants to move around a map, maybe to get to some friends, will be stuck with a low level Hustle Charm.  A cart is an option, but not all players want to be going in and out of their cart all the time.  I don't understand why the Hustle Charm is even in the Common skill section if it is not able to be used by both classes.  That is what common is supposed to be.  Skills that both classes share equally.

Your statement about higher dodge meaning that you aren't untouchable is slightly odd.  A 19x scout with 4xx dodge should be able to dodge a grey Sikuku Shaman more times than not.  I did a test, and they were able to hit almost every time consistently.  I did the same test with my 18x cleric, and found that they hit/missed relatively the same amount of times.  You say that the adjustments you've done will help balance dodge, but you haven't changed any core mechanics.  Will those changes alter this situation, or will grey enemies for 20+ levels under a dodge based class still be able to hit consistently?

The changes are slight, but not awe inspiring. You're also taking high level monsters to test on, which even if you had high dodge, they still have high stats as well. You may not see a huge difference, but there is one. Though slight, it helps, and as we continue to make adjustments it will become more apparent as it gradually takes effect.

One part of your idea on the parties that I disagree with is the experience gain.  I know this example has been used often, but in the prison, all a party needs is a mage and a cleric and they can train there very well.  From what I can discern, this won't change.  A mage and a cleric will be able to train easliy in the prison, if not easier than now because of the faster cool on the only skill they need to train, Tempest/Hurricane.  If a party level 50 adds more people than 2, the exp takes a nose-dive.  The other night I was in a party with 6 people in the prison, and was gaining 20,000-30,000 exp per kill.  The rate of killing wasn't much faster than a 2 person party, but the exp was extremely cut, since a 2 person party with the same situation can gain about 120,000 exp per kill.  There isn't much incentive, that I can see, to add other players if a party has a good setup.  The way many maps work, be it killing methods or monster amounts, governs the amount of people in a party for the most part.

Maps with fewer enemies, but higher exp per enemy, a party with a lower amount of people is much more desired, same with maps where 2 people can kill many enemies at one time, the prison for example.  From the update notes posted, monster amounts and behaviour won't be changed, so incentive to party isn't going to change all that much.  If you can show me some ways that the incentive to have larger parties will change much, please do so.  I look forward to being able to find large parties.

And you're also using an example of a situation that's being heavily exploited based on current mechanics. Feel free to head down there and see what you think about its difficulty once the test server is launched. There are factors you're overlooking that will dramatically alter your experience in a dungeon such as the Sikuku Underground Prison.

And we haven't even done the monster update yet. . .

niluge j'ai rien compris même après avoir relu 3 fois ton résumé , mais c'est surement parce qu'il ce fais tard

c'est un peu plus clair, merci a toi

Niluje a écrit :

Si y a encore quelque chose que tu comprends pas ici ou dans d'autres topics de questions/réponses, hésite pas à demander

ok, mais je pense que ça devrais aller, je n'ai pas eu de soucis jusque la enfin on verra bien

Euh oui, mais bon faut aimer gacher les sp quoi xD (icy hailstorm en tout cas)
Mais bon si tu aimes vraiment gacher les sp tu peux déjà l'avoir maintenant aussi xD